Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Why God placed in human beings a desire for continual growth, progress.
[00:00:10] It's not about competing with someone else. It's not about comparing. It's just progress.
[00:00:16] Right. We crave it.
[00:00:18] It's only natural to. But great plans require great preparation and Joseph needed to learn to embrace the process. So it's not easy.
[00:00:37] Welcome to a special episode of the well an Elam Fellowship Leadership Podcast.
[00:00:43] Join us today as we hear from Pastor Josh Finley as he shares at the new Pastors conference.
[00:00:50] Enjoy.
[00:00:53] It's always good to come home to Elim. As Pastor Phil said.
[00:00:57] Anna and I a couple weeks ago, we just celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary. Hard to believe.
[00:01:03] We came to Elam in 2000 and we lived on campus until 2017. Served at Elam Gospel Church for many years as youth pastor and lead pastor. And it's a joy and been able to serve as an elder for a number of years here.
[00:01:21] It's humbling when you get to come back to the people that discipled you and raised you out of a spiritual womb. You know, it really is. And I'm just, I'm, I'm thankful. I want to talk tonight about how God develops his leaders and we're going to talk through the life of Joseph. But first, the year was 1801.
[00:01:42] Thomas Jefferson was the president and two thirds of our nation, 5 point million, 5.3 million people lived within 55 miles of the east coast.
[00:01:54] All of our country was kind of clustered together in one place.
[00:01:58] But Thomas Jefferson had a huge vision to expand westward.
[00:02:02] He didn't want to just go west of the Mississippi River. He wanted to go into unknown territory. How many of you know as a leader, God will give you big vision for new territory.
[00:02:11] But to do that, it's hard to possess new territory without the right person to pioneer it.
[00:02:19] And so as a nation, we tried many times and failed to go west.
[00:02:23] And then he found a guy by the name of Meriwether Lewis.
[00:02:27] Meriwether Lewis had leadership experience on his family farm because his father passed away when he was very young and he managed that 2000 acre farm as a teenager.
[00:02:39] What I found as a kingdom principle is that faithfulness in the familiar place is what's needed before you pioneer into a new place. Amen. You've got to be faithful where God has you. And he was faithful on his family farm. 18 years old, talented but green and not fully prepared.
[00:02:56] So he gained six years of military experience but still lacked educational training. President Jefferson was quite educated and wanted the leader that he was going to groom to go on this mission to learn some things. And so Jefferson invited Meriwether Lewis to come and live in the White House with him and for three years meticulously trained him in mineralogy and botany and had the best of our nation come and teach. See, he didn't just want a water route to the Pacific. He wanted to know everything about the westward territory. He wanted to know about the Native Americans. He wanted to know about farming, climate, weather, everything.
[00:03:34] And so he brought him in, discipled him, and he, Meriwether Lewis, was able to find Captain William Clark and build a team of 28 others. The trip was expected to take 18 months, but the preparation for the trip took over three years.
[00:03:52] You know, when God calls me to do something, I'm kind of like, hey, you want me to go west?
[00:03:58] I got a north face wind coat. I got some trail mix in a bag. Let's go.
[00:04:03] Let's do this right. Well, God has a different development plan for his leaders, doesn't he?
[00:04:10] I learned this from Pastor Mike years ago. He preached a series, probably in 2005, 2006, somewhere in that time frame, about the life of Joseph, saying, God can't keep. You can't keep a good man down. And here was one thing that was imparted into me.
[00:04:25] Great plans require great preparation.
[00:04:29] You don't do something great for God. You're talking about longevity.
[00:04:33] You know, we were talking at dinner about cathedrals. I was just in Spain last month, and the largest cathedral in the world is going to be finished in 2026 in Barcelona.
[00:04:43] They started that project in 1882.
[00:04:50] I don't know anyone with an Elim that's going to build a cathedral.
[00:04:54] However, I don't know a leader with an Elim that doesn't have a cathedral in their heart.
[00:05:00] There is a vision God has planted in you. Every follower of Christ has a cathedral in their heart.
[00:05:07] And God will systematically develop us so that we can see that vision come to pass and set it in motion for the next generation.
[00:05:16] Sometimes God, it looks like he seemingly pauses the advancement of his kingdom for the development of one of his leaders.
[00:05:27] God, what are you doing with Moses in the backside of the desert? Why don't you just rescue the Jew? I'm preparing them. I'm preparing a deliverer.
[00:05:34] When he's ready, we're going to do this.
[00:05:38] You know, we love the suddenlies of God, but have you realized how slow it is to build up to the suddenlies of God?
[00:05:45] God is into the systematic, holistic development.
[00:05:49] You think you're being delayed, but God sees it as you being developed.
[00:05:55] There are times where I saw it as a punishment, but actually God was preparing me for favor.
[00:06:02] What does Proverbs say? He wants to bless and add no sorrow to it.
[00:06:08] What happens is God knows that if he doesn't develop us to stand up under the weight of favor and blessing, it will crush us.
[00:06:15] It will add sorrow to the blessing. So he has to develop us. And I want to talk about how God develops leaders. We'll look at the life of Joseph. Joseph is interesting because no one else in Scripture gets more airtime than Joseph.
[00:06:31] There is more detail on the narrative of Joseph than the life of Jesus than the life of Paul.
[00:06:38] There is no Bible character who gets 13 chapters of their life talking about it in detail. Not one Joseph stands alone in the narrative of Scripture. And so to me, God did that for a reason. The most detailed account, and it reveals that great plans require great preparation.
[00:06:58] Romans 15 says that these stories in Scripture were preserved for us.
[00:07:03] Why Romans 15. Paul says to encourage us that we might hold on to the promise of God.
[00:07:09] There's a reason why God left all the details of Joseph's life for us.
[00:07:14] So that with the cathedral in your heart, you would say, you know what? It may take a while, but I'm going to wait for it. It may take a while, but I'm going to pass this next test. Amen.
[00:07:24] There's a cathedral in the heart. Joseph's story, his leadership, development and spiritual journey. He was deeply hurt by his family and loved ones. Cast into a pit, sold into slavery, accused of adultery, thrown into prison, forgotten those by those that he helped.
[00:07:40] How many you know, in ministry, sometimes you're forgotten by those that you help.
[00:07:44] Chuck Swindoll said, we are all faced with a series of great opportunities brilliantly disguised as impossible situations.
[00:07:56] I say. I say, God, it's all falling apart.
[00:08:00] And he says, nah, it's all falling into place.
[00:08:06] It's just the way he operates.
[00:08:08] Ephesians 1. He works out everything into the conformity of his will. Joseph's life experience produced his life message that God made, meant it for good.
[00:08:18] I want to give you three things, three principles from the life of Joseph that apply to our life and to our leadership. Number one, Joseph needed to become a. He needed to become solely dependent on God.
[00:08:30] Solely dependent on God.
[00:08:32] Can I just have that whiteboard, Doug?
[00:08:37] Pastor Phil was prophesying about this, this. This dependence that we have and this independence that we have in us.
[00:08:44] And what's amazing is the, the. The view of the world is basically, is basically this, let's do this. If we could push it that way so that most people could see.
[00:08:58] So we've got, we've got a worldview that says when you and I are born, we are born totally different, independent.
[00:09:11] I mean, what do you, what are you doing for yourself as a child?
[00:09:15] You're not. You are a noise at one end and a mess at the other. You, you are, you are, you are a terrorist.
[00:09:23] You don't care about your parents sleep schedule. You don't care about their budget. You are all need.
[00:09:29] That's the worldview, right? But, but in the world's eye, as you, as you grow, you go from dependent to independent, right?
[00:09:39] That's a sign of maturity.
[00:09:41] I no longer have to cut the stake on my son's plates, right? I'm not bending down to tie their shoes. Can you imagine if, if bringing them to the, to the day of their wedding or, or they're getting ready for prom and their prom day comes and I say, I say, hold on a second. I have to go tie my son's shoes.
[00:09:59] What's wrong with this situation, right?
[00:10:01] So in the world, we mature this way. I. But how many of you know the kingdom is the exact opposite?
[00:10:07] In the kingdom, the kingdom view is that you've, you've got to. We all come into this family, the family of God, so independent.
[00:10:20] We, we think, I mean, Pastor Phil never thought this, that he was the, the man of faith and power for the hour and going to take over the world. But, but there's something in us that says it's a good thing I got saved independent. It's a good thing I got saved because God really needs me.
[00:10:40] You know, we don't even know what we don't know.
[00:10:45] And it's so funny, because when Pastor Mike and I transitioned, he was 54 and I was 27.
[00:10:56] And I never heard the statistic that said that 90% of people that take over for a founder, especially if the founder's been there for 20 years, you become the sacrificial lamb within 18 months.
[00:11:09] Thank God I was five years in before I even read that statistic.
[00:11:14] But you don't even know what you don't know. So it helps your prayer life. But in the kingdom, when you mature, you go from independent to dependent.
[00:11:23] In fact, Jesus says, unless you mature into childlikeness, unless you mature into greater childlikeness, we won't see the kingdom.
[00:11:31] So why did Joseph have to become solely dependent on God?
[00:11:36] Genesis 37 gives the story of his life and Genesis 37, verse one. It says, Jacob, his father lived in the land where his father had stayed, the land of Canaan. Verse 2.
[00:11:48] This is the account of Jacob's family line.
[00:11:52] Joseph, you think you're about to hear the life of Jacob and it goes right to Joseph.
[00:11:58] How many of you know that everything we do is for the next generation to be set up?
[00:12:02] Everything?
[00:12:04] Everything.
[00:12:06] I heard someone say recently, you can't fake good kids.
[00:12:12] You can't fake healthy sons and daughters.
[00:12:16] That's what this whole thing's about, the next generation.
[00:12:20] Let's talk about Jacob now. Joseph. Wow. God, that was a quick pivot.
[00:12:26] But there was nothing greater that Jacob could do than to set up Joseph.
[00:12:31] Joseph's prophetic gifting was ready to be used mightily. But his personal development was not.
[00:12:37] He was born into great wealth. He was the great grandson of Abraham.
[00:12:42] Abraham was one of the wealthiest men in all of scripture, right?
[00:12:46] Solomon, David, Abraham.
[00:12:50] Joseph grew up as a prince. Joseph grew up in a house that had four moms and 12 sons.
[00:12:57] Highly dysfunctional, right? You know, I grew up with two parents. We had three sons and three daughters. And we joked and we said, we put the fun in dysfunction.
[00:13:08] You know, we were like the Addams Family or the, the, what's that, what was that show back in the day, in the 80s, the Brady Bunch. We were like the Brady Bunch. Three and three.
[00:13:19] He was the favored son. Scripture actually gives us the detail that he was considered a tattletale by his brothers.
[00:13:26] You gotta love the details that just get thrown in there.
[00:13:29] Joseph was not afraid to flaunt the favor on his life.
[00:13:34] He wore that coat of many colors and had no problem letting his brother see him in that.
[00:13:40] A 17 year old Joseph didn't know that his status was all about God's purpose.
[00:13:49] But when you're young and you're independent, you think it has something to do with you.
[00:13:54] As you get older, you realize the thing that is on you is not for you, it's for the body.
[00:14:03] The anointing you have is to serve people. It's, it's, it's for the, it's not even about you. But Joseph is about to learn this.
[00:14:11] He was deeply despised by his brothers. And yet at 17 years old, God gives him a dream.
[00:14:17] 17 years old, he shares the dream with his brothers and his brothers look at him and say, will you actually rule over us? Get out of here.
[00:14:29] Then he shares the dream with his parents and it says, Jacob had no idea what to do with this dream.
[00:14:35] He says, I saw the sun and the moon and the star saw everyone bowing down to me.
[00:14:40] Will you actually rule over us? He lacked the wisdom to. To wield that powerful prophetic gift.
[00:14:48] He was like a baby with a loaded guy. He probably thought that God would fulfill that dream pretty quickly.
[00:14:56] Little did he know that great plans require great preparation.
[00:15:01] How do you lovingly prepare someone to have enough favor and influence to be the second most powerful person in the world?
[00:15:11] He only reported to Pharaoh, but Pharaoh gave him the keys of the kingdom. How do you prepare someone at a young age to do that?
[00:15:18] Well, you walk them through some trials.
[00:15:21] How does God develop leaders? Well, he great. Listen, as a leader, when God gives you a vision. All we want is momentum.
[00:15:30] John Maxwell's the big Mo. All we want is momentum. But what God is looking for is maturity.
[00:15:37] Once we have the maturity, then God can step on the gas, right? We, we joke and we say, you know, Jesus, take the wheel. Well, sometimes when he takes the wheel, he will punch the gas. Especially after he's developed, you know, you know, you think you're waiting on God, waiting, and then suddenly things begin to happen.
[00:15:55] Within weeks after Charlie Kirk was killed, our church grew by 7, 800 people like that spiritual hunger like I've never even seen before.
[00:16:05] And we're just trying to keep up with what God is doing, right?
[00:16:10] Joseph thought it would happen quickly, but he had never been in the position of a lowly servant. He didn't know what it was to not be the favored one.
[00:16:20] And so God is going to systematically develop him. And listen, in America, we love the rags to riches story.
[00:16:27] Who doesn't?
[00:16:29] But Joseph was the riches to rags back to riches story.
[00:16:36] He was, he was the opposite. So number one, let me read this from R.T. kendall. I love this. God needed to build Joe into Joseph, a reliance on him beyond his dependence on his raw gifts, talents, abilities, or any favorable circumstance.
[00:16:54] You're born into a wealthy family, you're the favored son. You have a prophetic gift. God's given you a dream that is so massive, at 17 years old, you're like, okay, God, let's get on with it. Let's do it. What are you doing next Tuesday?
[00:17:07] Number one, how does God develop leaders? Joseph. And we need to become solely dependent on God. Number two, Joseph had to choose to embrace the process. Say process like a swear word.
[00:17:21] Process. Who likes the process?
[00:17:24] Psalm 105, speaking of Joseph's life. It says he called for a famine on the land of Canaan, cutting off its food supply. Then he sent someone to Egypt ahead Of them, Joseph, who was sold as a slave.
[00:17:39] They bruised his feet with fetters and placed his neck in an iron collar. Watch verse 19.
[00:17:45] Until the time came to fulfill his dreams. The Lord tested Joseph's character, who tested him, who sent the famine, who sent him to Egypt. The Lord sovereignly oversaw the whole thing.
[00:18:00] But what tested Joseph? The word that God spoke over Joseph. It's interesting when you look at the parable of the sower and the seed and the soil and Matthew 13.
[00:18:11] Jesus said, when the word of God is planted and sown in your heart, it will attract adversity.
[00:18:19] What attracts adversity to your life?
[00:18:21] The prophetic cathedral in your heart.
[00:18:25] When the word is sown, it attracts adversity from the kingdom of darkness. When I was a kid, we used to play a game. You know, they don't play dodgeball anymore in school. We used to play kill the man with the ball. I mean, there was no. That was literally the game, right? So if you had the football, every kid in the neighborhood was trying to take you out.
[00:18:49] You hold the football, you attract adversity. Can I tell you that when you hold a fresh word from God, you will attract the adversity necessary to develop you to walk in it out of the kindness of God.
[00:19:03] They're like, pastor Phil, stop prophesying over us.
[00:19:06] I'm not recording that on my phone.
[00:19:09] The word attracts the adversity necessary.
[00:19:13] Sometimes favor from heaven causes problems on this earth, right?
[00:19:18] This is what Joseph is about to learn.
[00:19:21] Growth is a process.
[00:19:23] It's a process. I heard someone minister the household name, he said, it only took me 25 years to become an overnight success.
[00:19:34] When God grows a leader that he can entrust with amazing favor, His. His approach is not microwave. It. His approach is marinated.
[00:19:44] Because in the kindness of God, he knows it would crush us if we stepped into it prematurely.
[00:19:51] Joseph needed to embrace the process. Sometimes we pray. We say, God, you better do something. You're running out of time.
[00:19:59] But the truth is, we're just running out of patience.
[00:20:03] And I'll tell you this, my friend, time is on your side because God is on your side.
[00:20:08] Amen. David said, my times and my seasons are in your hands. When I was a kid, there was a commercial on tv.
[00:20:16] Anybody remember seeing those things called the Chia Pet?
[00:20:20] You pour a little bit of water in the Chia Pet, and like, overnight, poof, the thing starts growing, sprouting, right? That's not reality.
[00:20:29] I don't know anything else on the planet that grows like a Chia Pet.
[00:20:34] Our Boys, you know, like most of you maybe have in your kitchen or maybe in the doorway coming into your house, you got little marks where they would grow up and you have the pencil marks and everything. And they were so obsessed with growing that it was like, hey, could you give me. I'm like, three days ago, bud, we just met. Like, we put a date next to your initials, right?
[00:20:56] But there's this thing that. Listen, God placed it in you.
[00:21:02] You know, sometimes people judge billionaires and super wealthy people and they say, oh, it's just never enough.
[00:21:07] It gets to a place where it's not even about the money.
[00:21:11] It's just about progress. Why God placed in human beings a desire for continual growth progress.
[00:21:23] It's not about competing with someone else. It's not about comparing. It's just progress, right? We crave it.
[00:21:31] It's only natural to. But great plans require great preparation. And Joseph needed to learn to embrace the process.
[00:21:39] So it's not easy. Why God placed in human beings a desire for continual growth progress.
[00:21:52] It's not about competing with someone else. It's not about comparing. It's. It's just progress, right? We crave it. It's. It's only natural to. But great plans require great preparation and Joseph needed to learn to embrace the process. So. So it's not easy.
[00:22:10] What. What are you. What are you waiting for? Are you stuck in a building that can't facilitate the ministry vision you have?
[00:22:16] Are you waiting for a healing in your body? Or are you waiting for a. A worship leader that can help facilitate an environment for ministry, a gifted kids minister or a youth pastor that you control? What are you, what are you needing to move closer to the cathedral in your heart?
[00:22:34] What are you waiting for?
[00:22:36] Because it's a process. God will. God will develop us.
[00:22:40] And I have found that every leader, because we want progress, we hate the weight. We hate the weight. Can we just be honest? We hate the weight.
[00:22:49] But the only thing harder than waiting on God is wishing that you had.
[00:22:57] Because if you try to help him, you're moving back a few steps.
[00:23:03] He's gonna, he's gonna keep. He's gonna. He's going to be faithful. Joseph needed to learn to embrace process. So let's look at this.
[00:23:10] In psychology and in life coaching, they call these things process events in your life and in my life, we have major keystone moments, these process events. So for Joseph, he has this high water mark. It's like amazing. He's 17 years old and he has a vision from God that's incredible. Only problem Is his father says, hey, go check on your brothers and go. Go to Shechem and see how they're doing.
[00:23:41] So Joseph goes over to Shechem and they say, hey, they're not here anymore. They've kept going. They're in a place called Dothan well. Dothan means place of two wells, the place of double wells.
[00:23:52] And in. In that culture, that's like double blessing. You have water, you have wealth, you have resources.
[00:23:58] But Joseph was about to find out that in Dothan, the. The wells were dry.
[00:24:04] And a dry well becomes a prison when you get thrown into one. So Joseph goes, he has a vision at 17, but he is thrown into a prison. He's thrown into a dry well and left there to die.
[00:24:17] Right?
[00:24:18] But God has a way of keeping you alive to fulfill his purposes. So he is rescued out of the well.
[00:24:26] This is amazing. I'm going to live another day only to be human trafficked to Egypt.
[00:24:34] Let's not like glamorize it. Joseph was human trafficked by his brothers. Oh, the Ishmaelite traders will give us money for him. Here you go.
[00:24:43] They had no idea what was going to happen to him.
[00:24:47] But God in his sovereignty, watching over his development, says, I'm going to rescue you. I'm going to put you in Potiphar's house and give you incredible favorite.
[00:24:56] Talk about a turbulent development process.
[00:25:00] It says in Potiphar's house that Potiphar didn't concern himself with anything except for what he ate.
[00:25:07] He says, I'll control the menu of my meals. Joseph, you control everything else.
[00:25:13] And it says God's favor was with him. But here's the deal. Joseph still.
[00:25:18] When Joseph was living at home with Jacob, anyone who's. Who, the that would come visit the family, you better believe Joseph was at his right hand.
[00:25:27] Joseph would have been at the table. Joseph was a part of the conversation and Potiphar's house when guests would come. Cause Potiphar was the chief executioner, you know, in Egypt. So he was Pharaoh's guy. Like, this is a guy that had a lot of clout, a lot of power. People would have been coming and going in and out of his house. But Joseph's not invited to the table.
[00:25:49] Joseph is managing the servants. Joseph is, is. Is cleaning floors. There are seasons in the kindness of God, rather than being visible, God allows you to be dismissed.
[00:26:03] In the kindness of God.
[00:26:06] But in those seasons where I felt invisible, God, am I ever going to be able to use my gifts? Am I ever gonna be able to do something of Impact. The Holy Spirit spoke to me, said there is no such thing as obscurity within God's sovereignty.
[00:26:20] You are not lost in obscurity. Your zip code is not obscure your location. Your. No, no. You are not off God's radar.
[00:26:28] God knew exactly where Joseph was. But Joseph needed to be dismissed for a season and that silver spoon had to get yanked out of his mouth.
[00:26:36] So now he's in Potiphar's house and things are going amazing until Potiphar's trophy wife tries to get Joseph into bed.
[00:26:45] It says that he was well built and handsome.
[00:26:50] Joseph, listen, I love the fact that the Bible doesn't say negative things about Joseph, but he was a human being. Do you think over the course of these 13 years he would have thought to himself at least once, where is my dad? Surely they're coming to look for me. Where are my brothers?
[00:27:07] Joseph held on. He. He didn't have a community group.
[00:27:11] He didn't have Mav City or Bethel worship. He didn't have any of those things, right? It says he's well built and handsome. He should have been a Gap model, not cleaning Potiphar's floors. And he had to wrestle through all those things.
[00:27:24] And then Potiphar's wife tries to get him. And I love this because she, she grabbed his coat, but she couldn't get his character.
[00:27:34] If God is going to give you favor, he needs to know that your character is stronger than your hormones.
[00:27:42] And that seems so simple and like that's part of the price of admission to have integrity.
[00:27:48] But look around, right? Some of the giants in our own spiritual family just falling and falling.
[00:27:55] God tested Joseph's character.
[00:27:59] What I found out is that God doesn't test our character so he can learn something. God tests our character so we can learn something he already knows.
[00:28:07] And here's the thing. When you're waiting for a promise, the enemy knows you are incredibly susceptible to temptation because you're waiting.
[00:28:17] So things look more appetizing because you're waiting or you're bored or you're discouraged or you feel rejected.
[00:28:25] But I love it. And here's the thing. The testing of your character.
[00:28:29] When the temptation comes, it's too late to prepare.
[00:28:33] The testing of your character is always coming. Like a pop quiz.
[00:28:38] Are you with me?
[00:28:41] This is where we live.
[00:28:42] This is how God develops us. So Joseph, he passes the test. It's amazing. He doesn't sleep with Potiphar's wife. The bad news is he gets thrown into jail.
[00:28:54] Talk about ups and downs.
[00:28:57] He's thrown into prison.
[00:28:59] But in prison, praise God, how many are thankful that the favor of God is transferable?
[00:29:05] The favor isn't just on the title or the office. It's on the person.
[00:29:11] Joseph took that favor from Potiphar's house to the prison. It says he became the manager of the prison. But not just any prison.
[00:29:20] This would have been the prison connected to Potiphar's house. Potiphar being the chief executioner. First of all, if Potiphar believed his wife, Joseph would have been dead.
[00:29:30] There's no way he believed his wife. He knew his wife.
[00:29:37] I mean, read between the lines. We know human nature. You've been in ministry, you understand how people. Joseph would have been dead, but he's got a saved face, throws him in prison.
[00:29:46] And here's the thing that Joseph didn't understand. He didn't know who his next boss was going to be.
[00:29:51] He didn't know he was going to work for Pharaoh, but God did.
[00:29:56] So God puts Joseph in the Pharaoh Donald Trump apprentice program.
[00:30:03] I'm going to send all my ex employees to prison and they're going to train you about the culture of the palace.
[00:30:12] What do you think they talked about in prison?
[00:30:14] The person who sent them there?
[00:30:17] Pharaoh sent the cupbearer. He sent the butler, the baker, the butler and the baker.
[00:30:24] So Joseph is there managing the prison, hearing all about his future boss.
[00:30:32] What is that? That's the sovereign kindness of God.
[00:30:36] The place you are in and the people who are around you are not by accident.
[00:30:42] It's by design.
[00:30:44] Joseph didn't know that.
[00:30:46] Joseph didn't know that his life was literally going to be a recorded story for 4,000 years. Encouraging the church.
[00:30:55] Think about that. Why would God preserve all these details? Incredible.
[00:30:59] So he's in prison and the. You know the story. The butler has a dream and the baker has a dream.
[00:31:08] And now it's time for that prophetic gift of discernment and dream interpretation to be activated again.
[00:31:14] Isn't it amazing that the, the ministry gifts, the callings and giftings are irrevocable. Romans 11.
[00:31:21] It doesn't matter if he's in his father's tent. It doesn't matter if he's in prison, doesn't matter if he's in Potiphar's house, doesn't matter if he's in the palace. The spirit of God goes with you where you go.
[00:31:32] So the, the, the butler says, hey, I had this dream.
[00:31:36] Joseph gives him a favorable interpretation. You're going to be reinstated to your position. The baker says, hey, I had A dream too. Let me see if I can get a. Get a word out of you. And Joseph looks at the baker and says, I'm sorry, my friend, you're dead.
[00:31:51] And sure enough, they come and take the baker. They impale him on a stick.
[00:31:56] The butler gets reinstated back to Pharaoh's side. And what does Joseph say? Joseph says, he's got all this favor. He sees his ticket out of here, he helps him. He says, but when you get out, remember me.
[00:32:11] But what do they do?
[00:32:13] They forget about him.
[00:32:16] It's almost like God said to Joseph, listen, you got to embrace this process because you are, of course, you're anxious to get out of that furnace.
[00:32:27] But something in Joseph's heart said, if I could help manipulate this and make this happen, if you could do a favor for me.
[00:32:35] I'm not sure if God still sees me, but if you could do a fa. And God says, joseph, you're so close. But two more years back in the oven, you got to cook a little longer in two more years until Pharaoh has a dream.
[00:32:51] And the cup bearer, the butler says, oh my goodness, I forgot.
[00:32:57] A guy in Potiphar's prison interpreted my dream. Pharaoh, he can do it for you.
[00:33:03] So now it's Joseph's ticket out of here. They clean him up, they shave him, they put all the Egyptian makeup on him and get him all ready to go. He is going before Pharaoh.
[00:33:14] But this is a different Joseph.
[00:33:17] After 13 years of what he's gone through, this is not the younger 17 year old Joseph. You could not convince me anyone. He would have been cocky.
[00:33:26] Pharaoh would have said, hey, I had a dream. Joseph would have said, hey, I got a business card. 1-800- interpret your dream, you know what I'm saying? Like he, he, he would have said, you got a dream, I'm your prophet.
[00:33:38] But what does Joseph now say?
[00:33:40] Joseph looks at Pharaoh.
[00:33:43] He has the opportunity of a lifetime. But after those extra two years of waiting, he looks at Pharaoh and says, I can't. I can't help you read it.
[00:33:57] I can't.
[00:34:00] But I know who can.
[00:34:04] I mean the humility.
[00:34:07] He's before the most powerful man in the world who could change his life forever. And, and he says, I can't do it.
[00:34:16] But I know who can.
[00:34:18] I found that in ministry. I believe this is the equation of kingdom competency. It's saying this I can't plus he can equals we will.
[00:34:37] This right here, it's not false humility. It's literally acknowledging, I can't do this. I can't heal the Sick. I can't preach the. I can't do this.
[00:34:48] But he can.
[00:34:50] So we will.
[00:34:52] Because everything with God is a partnership.
[00:34:56] If he wanted to do it by himself, he wouldn't have had Adam name the animals in the garden. It's a partnership.
[00:35:02] I can't. But. But Joseph didn't know that he couldn't do it until 13 years of affliction. How does God develop a leader?
[00:35:11] Great plans require great preparation.
[00:35:14] Romans 8. And I'll use all things, not all good things, all things to. To work to the. To the good of those who called and called according to his purpose. To be shaped and conformed into the image of his son.
[00:35:27] So this is where Joseph's at.
[00:35:30] He. He is. He is living large.
[00:35:33] And the amazing thing is he, of course, you know, Pharaoh says, become the prime minister. You're number. You're going to be number two in my kingdom.
[00:35:40] I'll withhold nothing from you.
[00:35:44] Just. Just unbelievable.
[00:35:47] Then he gets an opportunity to bring his family to be with him.
[00:35:54] Right.
[00:35:55] He's going to solve an international food crisis.
[00:35:59] What do you got on your resume, Joseph? I saved the world from starvation. You know, this is so amazing. He names his kids, and you could tell by the names he gives his kids the level of healing that God has already started to bring in his life.
[00:36:15] He's got Ephraim, which means fruitful. I have been fruitful even in the land of my suffering, Ephraim. And I've also got Manasseh. God has caused me to forget.
[00:36:29] The names of his kids are prophetic. As to the inner healing that God's been doing in his life, his father Jacob now comes and Joseph gets to care for Jacob for 17 years. The last 17 years of his life.
[00:36:42] Come and live in Goshen with me.
[00:36:45] And I love this because Bob Sorge, when he was teaching on the life of Jacob, Scripture is very clear that the greater always blesses the lesser.
[00:36:57] Where does Jacob end up at the end of his life?
[00:37:01] The Bible says that Pharaoh wanted to meet Joseph's father and Jacob blessed Pharaoh.
[00:37:09] The greater blesses the lesser.
[00:37:12] Jacob is literally on top of the world.
[00:37:17] Not because of necessarily what he did, but because how he set the next generation up.
[00:37:22] Do you know how God can tell a story?
[00:37:24] How fulfilling must it have been for Jacob to know that his son was alive, that his son stayed true to Yahweh? And then all the favor of Joseph's life gets to be lavished on his father at the end of his life for 17 years. He gets to take care of his dad.
[00:37:42] Then, you know the story where, I mean, his brothers do eventually come and bow down to him. His vision happens.
[00:37:51] But what he didn't know is at 17, when they bowed down to him, he thought the vision was about him.
[00:37:57] But later in life, he realized the vision was actually about them.
[00:38:00] They wouldn't serve him. He would serve and save them.
[00:38:05] Isn't it incredible how you can look at things from a different vantage point as God develops you.
[00:38:11] How does God develop leaders? I'm telling you, it's like this.
[00:38:16] So, so this is what happens. We. When you and I were going through this process, and you got the mountaintops and you got the valleys, and I don't really like valleys very much.
[00:38:30] You know, in the business world, they want everything on a graph to go up and to the right.
[00:38:35] But that's not how life is lived.
[00:38:38] Genesis 8. God says, I'm pretty into this thing, actually. As long as the earth remains, there will be seasons.
[00:38:46] So there's going to be seasons in life and seasons in ministry.
[00:38:51] I don't like winter particularly, but I tell you, one of the blessings of winter is when all the leaves fall off the trees and things die. You can see a lot further.
[00:39:00] You look into the woods. It's, it's, it's very clear.
[00:39:04] It's a time of incredible reflection.
[00:39:07] But it's, it's seasons. But so we, we, we, we, we. We want to be on the mountaintop. Let's just be honest. We want to be on the mountaintop.
[00:39:15] How does God. What's God's strategy to get you from mountaintop to mountaintop, down into the valley?
[00:39:23] God builds valleys. Man builds bridges.
[00:39:28] I could just, you know, I could just work a few if I could just. The problem is that the bridge is paper mache.
[00:39:37] It can't hold any weight. Don't let any of your loved ones on that bridge.
[00:39:43] When you are in the valley, all you want is answers.
[00:39:50] When we are in the valley, all God craves is conversation.
[00:39:57] I believe spiritual development for leaders is, is housed in the voice of God.
[00:40:03] You, you hear a fresh word from God and it'll take you back up out of the valley. But, but the greatest psalms were written in the valleys.
[00:40:12] Actually, the best water flows down into the valleys. The grass is greenest in the valley. There are some benefits to valleys. I don't want to be there. I, I don't like it. But after you go through it, you say, you know what? God actually was very wise to do that.
[00:40:25] I wouldn't want to do it again. But I'M pretty sure I can't live without that.
[00:40:30] Are you with me?
[00:40:33] So there's this process, people that study. There's a guy named Dr. Bobby Clinton who. He's in heaven now, but he studied every leader in the Bible and many leaders outside of the Bible.
[00:40:45] But the. The issue is that 100% of us go into this process of events.
[00:40:53] Ups and downs, ups and downs, ups and downs. But only 20% of us come out on the other side at our redemptive potential because somewhere along the way, in some valley, we are tempted to just call it quits.
[00:41:14] Have you ever tempt. Have you ever been tempted to camp out, throw a pity party and invite a lot of people that you know will come and lick your wounds with you?
[00:41:22] And you will can try. You will try to convince yourself this is the will of God.
[00:41:29] That cathedral in my heart was just. I don't even know what that was.
[00:41:36] I know God's placed a vision in your heart in this cathedral. It'll take your whole life to build whatever that cathedral is, and you will have to hand it off to the next generation to go to the next level.
[00:41:48] Because no matter how long you serve in ministry, you're always interim.
[00:41:54] You serve 45 years as a lead pastor. You're interim.
[00:41:58] You're interim.
[00:42:00] Not insignificant, very significant, but you're always interim because it's never about our time.
[00:42:08] It's about his glory.
[00:42:11] So 100% of us go in, only 20% of us come out. And we want momentum. God's looking for maturity. We want answers. All he's craving is intimacy and conversations.
[00:42:24] It's incredible.
[00:42:25] Joseph needed to embrace the process. And here's the third one, the first one.
[00:42:31] He needs to become solely dependent on God. We have to become solely dependent on God. We have to mature into radical childlikeness.
[00:42:41] He had to embrace the process because once the word of God was spoken to him, Psalm 105, all adversity was attracted to him.
[00:42:50] And here's the last one. Joseph had to protect his face in the future. What is that? That's the cathedral in your heart. That's the vision God gives you.
[00:42:59] Joseph is.
[00:43:00] Here he is.
[00:43:02] You know, I don't have great art skills whatsoever.
[00:43:06] Here is Joseph.
[00:43:08] He is.
[00:43:10] Here's our. My little stick figure of Joseph. He's very happy.
[00:43:14] 17 years old, has an incredible vision.
[00:43:19] He sees way into the future, and he sees that he's going to be even more big time, even happier.
[00:43:26] Bliss on a stick. The promised land. This is, you know, redemptive potential. This is Amazing.
[00:43:35] The problem is this face in the future, this, this vision, this preferred future.
[00:43:42] I've heard it said like this. The challenge is getting your butt to where your face is.
[00:43:48] How do you move from here to there?
[00:43:53] Let me ask you this. Has God given you a vision that over time and adversity, things begin to chip away at it and you begin to believe that you, you didn't see it clearly here.
[00:44:05] Somewhere along the way, you diminished it and you just said that this can't be right.
[00:44:12] We're all tempted to do that. We're all tempted to cash in the cathedral in our heart.
[00:44:19] What's difficult sometimes is when you look at these process events in your life, they call them boundaried events because there is a set time for us to go.
[00:44:31] There was a set time of blessing in Joseph's life, and then the silver spoon was yanked out.
[00:44:36] But there was also a set boundary, time of trial.
[00:44:42] When you're going through something, you better thank God that he operates in seasons, not in sentences. It's not a sentence over your life, it's a season.
[00:44:51] But when you're, when you're going through this process, have you ever been to the place where you're, you're, you're traveling with God and you feel like you're going around a mountain in circles?
[00:45:02] You're like, I think I've, I've passed this test before, right? I grew up here. And God loves you so much that he won't, you know, if you fail a test, he'll love you enough to let you take it again, so you pass it.
[00:45:13] But have you ever passed a test that you know you passed and then you take it again?
[00:45:19] Wait, talk to me, people. This is real life.
[00:45:22] You pass the, the sexual purity test, and then you have to pass it again. Then you have to pass it in another. You pass the you're not in it for the money test. And then you have to pass it again. You have to pass the, you're not going to live by the praise of people. Then you have to take it again.
[00:45:39] And what happens is you start to think that you're moving in circles. I'm like, what is this? Am I in the wilderness? This, this 11 day journey is now 40 years.
[00:45:48] But here's the deal. I want to encourage you. You're not moving in circles, you're moving in cycles.
[00:45:53] And you're going up a mountain. And so when you have these switchbacks, it's real easy to get lost because you're thinking, I think I've seen this before.
[00:46:02] But you're at another altitude.
[00:46:05] You're not going in circles.
[00:46:08] You may not feel like you're growing in leaps, but. But you're growing in layers. Come on.
[00:46:14] Decision by decision. Keeping your integrity.
[00:46:18] You know, one of the greatest.
[00:46:21] The thing that I am the most proud of in my life is not any ministry endeavor. I'm proud that my wife and I love each other. We've been married for 25 years. And I'm proud that our 20 year old and our 18 year old want to serve the Lord, that there's nothing greater to me. I'd cash everything else in for that.
[00:46:40] Right.
[00:46:41] But there are seasons where you're like God, what is happening?
[00:46:46] Let me. Let me close with this. And can I have my guy on the. On the keys come. Just to give you hope, to let you know I'm really closing.
[00:46:59] You could keep this out just for a little bit.
[00:47:02] So you're okay? Yeah.
[00:47:07] So let me tell you this story, a true story from history. I'm kind of a history nerd, so I love history. Winston Churchill.
[00:47:15] Winston Churchill is 16 years old.
[00:47:18] Joseph was 17 when he got a vision from God. Winston Churchill was 16 years old and he was talking with his schoolmates.
[00:47:25] And then all of a sudden, the conversation pivoted.
[00:47:28] Winston Churchill began to prophesy about himself.
[00:47:33] He said, I see a dark day coming over the English empire and it shall fall upon my shoulders to save the empire.
[00:47:46] If you heard a 16 year old kid at school talking like that, you'd say, who does this guy think he is?
[00:47:55] There was a cathedral, a prophetic cathedral in his heart at 16 years old.
[00:48:03] Only God, only God can do. God says, hey, Cyrus, my servant.
[00:48:08] Guy's not even born yet.
[00:48:10] Isaiah's prophesying about Cyrus. Cyrus doesn't even know the Lord. My servant, you're going to do my will.
[00:48:17] Sixteen years old, Winston Churchill has a vision that he is going to save his nation.
[00:48:26] 50 years go by.
[00:48:31] 5, 0.
[00:48:33] Great plans require great preparation. He's got to be trained in the military. He's got to be trained in politics. He's got to make some failures. He's got. He's got to develop some grit and some resistance. He's got to have some adversity. He's. He's got to be able to be tested so that God can trust him. At the darkest hour.
[00:48:51] At 66 years old, Winston Churchill got up in front of the British parliament and he said, all my life has been preparation for this one moment.
[00:49:10] What has God been preparing you for?
[00:49:13] I guarantee it's connected to the cathedral in your heart.
[00:49:18] Joseph had to protect. I'm sure there were times that he'd say, God, I wish you had never given me that vision. Has there been times in your life where the vision of God almost chokes the life out of you because you say, I can't afford it. I can't do it. I don't have the right team, I don't have the right resources. I'm not gifted enough. I'm not anointed. I'm just not the right person. God, I must have made this up.
[00:49:40] And God says, no, no, protect your face in the future.
[00:49:44] I'm moving you towards a vision.
[00:49:47] And we know this, that, that in the end, Scripture is so clear. When, when you see Joseph and all the ups and downs. When you see your life, ups and downs, you see.
[00:49:57] You know, I used to hear older ministers say, you haven't really been into in ministry until a Judas stabbed you in the back.
[00:50:04] And I would say, well, I think that's optional. You know, I don't think. I don't think you really have to. I don't think you have to have that. You know, it's not a price of admission.
[00:50:13] And then it happens, you know, I wish it wasn't human nature, but people are not always loyal to you.
[00:50:24] They're loyal to their need of you.
[00:50:27] And when their need is gone, so is their loyalty.
[00:50:31] And they just move on.
[00:50:33] They forgot about Joseph.
[00:50:35] He saved the guy's life. Forgets about him wasn't insignificant.
[00:50:43] I. I thank God for the encouragement that can come from people, from the. The appreciation that can come from people, but there's only validation that can come from one.
[00:50:52] He called you.
[00:50:54] Not everyone will understand it, but guess what? It wasn't a conference call.
[00:50:59] They weren't on the call.
[00:51:01] He called you. And he knew how he was going to have to develop you.
[00:51:06] And the beautiful thing is with all these ups and downs, he has a vision. He's thrown into a pit, he's rescued out of the pit he's gotten. He goes to Potiphar's house, he gets favor. Now he's accused of adultery, but he's promoted in prison. But then he's forgotten about. Then he goes before Pharaoh in this whole thing, the sum total of his whole life. Jesus says, what? When we get to heaven, we will cast our crowns at his feet.
[00:51:35] The entire. Listen to me. The cathedral in your heart, it's not even about us.
[00:51:44] I thank God for living in answered prayers. I thank God for blessings for our family. I thank God, right now, our church, every single weekend, is ministering to over 5,000 people.
[00:51:55] We're seeing. I've never even seen anything like this. We just bought a $25 million building for six and a half million dollars because God gave us an.
[00:52:04] To buy the Regal Cinema in town.
[00:52:07] And you say, well, that's gotta be. That's gotta be amazing. Yes, but it's also more problems because now you don't need hundreds of thousands. Now you need tens of millions. And now, I mean, just crazy.
[00:52:22] All the breakthroughs, all the blessings, all the trials, all the betrayals, all the pain, all the sleepless nights, all of it will be worth it, because one day you will set a crown before Jesus. He will not take it lightly because it literally represents the sum total of our lives.
[00:52:46] Would you stand with me?
[00:52:49] I want to pray.
[00:52:51] Paul said in Romans 15, these stories have been preserved for us that we might have hope and endurance as we wait for the promise of God to be fulfilled in our lives.
[00:53:11] How does God develop a leader? He takes them through a process.
[00:53:16] What prompt, what cathedral? Are you waiting. Are you waiting on unity among your elders?
[00:53:22] Are you waiting for a team that can be developed around you? Because you know that without a team, that vision seems like a pipe dream, because you just know one is too insignificant of a number to do anything of lasting value, you need people.
[00:53:39] I'm going to ask Pastor Phil and. And the team up here, the EF Team, just to come. We're gonna pray over you. I.
[00:53:45] I want you to think for a second.
[00:53:48] We're gonna sing a worship song. But I want in your. In your heart and your mind to. What is the aspect of that cathedral in your heart that you need some hope and encouragement, some fresh endurance.
[00:54:01] While we were worshiping earlier tonight, I. I saw in my spirit, I saw the Lord handing out keys, keys, keys that could open doors, keys that could give fresh access. And to me, I'm always thinking about territory and taking more. And. And what I saw is when the door opened, it was like this peaceful field.
[00:54:23] I said, lord, what. What. What kind of territory are you giving? And he said, no, no, these keys I'm giving open doors so that they can have peace and rest.
[00:54:33] And as they rest, fresh revelation will come of the blueprint and the vision that I've placed in their heart.
[00:54:42] So. So we're all ministers, we're all leaders.
[00:54:45] We all have needs. We all lose sight of our face in the future. We all camp out at times and shortchange what God spoke to us. And so tonight if you need the Holy Spirit to just breathe some hope and some endurance as we worship, as we create an atmosphere, just let us come and agree in faith with you.
[00:55:10] Let us agree in faith.
[00:55:12] So, Father, we thank you.
[00:55:15] We thank you for the word that you spoke at youth camp. We thank you for the word that you spoke at that missions trip. We thank you for Bible college. We thank you for the marketplace words you've spoken. We thank you for the seeds, the dreams.
[00:55:30] Thank you that you said that you know, for I know the plans that I have for you.
[00:55:37] Many plans, but one purpose. Many ways to get us there, but one purpose. Purpose.
[00:55:43] Holy Spirit, I just speak protection over the dream that you've given each leader.
[00:55:48] That we wouldn't water it down, that we wouldn't rob you of glory because we got impatient or we got self absorbed or we somehow along the way our character couldn't keep up with the, the blessing and the growth that you wanted to bring.
[00:56:02] Lord, we just, we just submit ourselves to you in your presence.
[00:56:08] Thank you for joining us on another episode of the well, an Elam Fellowship leadership podcast.
[00:56:14] If you like this episode, be sure to like and subscribe and share it with a friend.
[00:56:19] We'll see you next week.
