Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: We have so many amazing teachers here at ELAM Fellowship, and while you might have heard a lot of their messages from their stage, their heart is poured out in so many other ways. We had the Elam Authors Bookstore during Oasis and we want to do more to partner with both authors and creators within the ELAM space.
So today we're going to have a special interview where we sit down with one of our new authors to talk about his new release and his heart in this book.
But before we get to that, this is our season finale and it was an honor for me to be able to join you this season. There will be a couple weeks break after this episode, but we will be back with season four of the well.
So with that being said, let's let Doug introduce you to this Elam author and find out what he's all about.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Welcome to the well, a podcast of Elam Fellowship. Today we're joined by Dr. Eric Peeples, author of this book right here, Finishing A Leader's Guide to Courageous Living.
Eric's book explores what it means for leaders to pursue significance, faithfulness, and ultimately a life that finishes well.
[00:01:13] Speaker A: Eric.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Pastor Eric, what I like about this book is that it's not just about principles, but these are real life stories that shaped your message. And I like how you have interwoven stories throughout this whole book. And, and I loved how you started the book not off with a leadership principle, but by jumping right into a story where you nearly lost your life off the coast of Maui. And I was wondering, first of all, welcome. Thank you for being here. And could you just take us back to that day?
[00:01:44] Speaker C: Well, yeah, I mean, I think about the fact that this, this story or this theme was shaped off of a 25 year old story, you know, it's pretty significant. And I just want to say it's an honor to be a part in. And any part of this, our conversation adds life and inspires or provokes a leader. It's just a joy because really this, this book, the intention of it, even this, the launching story was stripping away all the athletes, all the stuff. It was in the Marcus Marketplace space, you know, married just for 14 months, doing a lot of things and having a success, which you see success on paper. But the reality for me is when you're dealing with a life or death situation, what comes down to it is it's not what you do, but it's who you are. And that was my, really my key or my offering to the reader, which is, hey, you know, when the stakes are high, the question isn't all the accolades that it's not even really theory first. It's recognizing that character isn't just isn't shaped in the furnace is actually revealed. It's really proven in crisis and it's not built by it. And I think that that's one of the big things for takeaways for leaders. When you start looking at your origin story and recognizing there's some things you're already doing, it just hasn't been highlighted maybe by wisdom or even by somebody testing for understanding, pushing back for you.
[00:03:24] Speaker B: It's great. And so this idea of success on paper versus significance seems to be a really big theme of this.
How does this story kind of bring that moment together for you?
[00:03:38] Speaker C: Well, you know, there I was in a corporate in this one, this trip, it was a big deal that is called Presence Club, working in Xerox at the time.
And really it was just one of those, one of those things I think that, that every high performers think and look at as far as just what matters most. You know, the times, it's the numbers, it's the, it's the, it's the wins, it's this. And, and you know, the questions or really the challenges I present, I think in this story is it's. I have a guy who is really a vice president. You know, he's top of the, top of the food chain. At the end of the day, when I talk about leadership, this is a guy who didn't know Jesus. And I recognized that I did. And here I am in this moment where it literally cost him his life.
And what matters most of the time. And I talk about winning and winning is not just the trophy. Winning to me is recognition of what's important now. And so when you begin to think about what's important now to you as a leader, what are you giving your time and effort and energy to when you start looking at the things that matter most, sometimes it's not the trophies, it's not church, all the people that are in the building. It's what's going on inside of you that allows you to do what you do in a measure that matters most and moves the needle.
[00:05:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess in those moments you really find out who you are and I guess that's the moment that you're referring to.
Incredible way to weave these stories in here.
One of the principles that you talk about is the three lies.
And I don't know if you're going to give us those three lies here in this podcast today or not, but I know that there Are lies either about ourselves or lies that feed us in negative ways? And could you talk about these lies and why they're so believable to leaders in high performing situations specifically?
[00:05:51] Speaker C: Well, I want to keep curiosity at bay, but I think, like, I don't give my whole book away, right? You know, but there's, Let me, let me, it's. That's really interesting. You know, when you write a book, it's, it's, it's, it's like the compression status, right? You read something and it's, it's in a chapter and you go, wow, that's a good chapter. But you don't realize that a chapter was really 11 years long. You're like, okay, right. And, and so, you know, one of the, I'll give you one of the, the lies that leaders, I think, wrestle with is their understanding of success and what, and that's again, the, one of the things that I've really, you know, for some of the leaders that I'm going to say that might be listening to this podcast, they're in the third or fourth quarter of their lives.
And I'm seeing that there is a, what I'm going to call a fourth quarter frenzy growing going right on in leaders right now. It's the, it is stepping on the gas and trying to cross the finish line as opposed to breaking the tape.
And one of the things that I think is really important, Emmett, is how do you define success and how do you find significance? Because that's really important.
I think it's actually possible to have both. But I'll give you an example. I think some leaders, they're.
The biggest thing is crossing the finish line is, is, you know what, man, If I have a business this big, a church that large, I'm, I want to push back on that idea and go, well, as I've been, as I've gotten older, I'm going, who's sitting around your bed? If you have the, if you have the ability that you're laying hands on for the last time, who is hearing the stories? Who is, who is what matters most? And my pushback in this book is what matters most and what are you searching for? Because a lot of times we don't take into consideration our origin story because again, somebody shaped what you think is success.
And the three lies that I meant to talk about, they actually sound reasonable.
They sound like that's really being responsible.
But when you don't challenge them, like, what does success look like? What does success look like in your 20s or 30s? Well, my 20s or 30s, I knew everything.
And then you're in your 40s, you're like, what do I even know? And then the older you get, you're like, what matters most?
And, and so oft times, naming the lie out loud breaks the tape. So I think that I like. So when I take the measure, what does the Bible say about success?
What is it?
[00:08:50] Speaker A: What.
[00:08:50] Speaker C: What does it look like for us to do when we finish, break the tape, we finish when we hear, well done, the good faithful servant. The question is, well, what, what, what will that look like? And what's it? What he said or what we said or your boss said or who said what? Who said what the win would be? I think that's what's really important for us in this. Whatever stage you're at in a game, ask yourself the question, what's important right now? And what is the Holy Spirit requiring of me?
[00:09:21] Speaker B: Is that the key, that's the secret to understanding when you're in a lie is asking that question right there, or is it a bit deeper than that?
[00:09:33] Speaker A: You know, I,
[00:09:36] Speaker C: you know, I'm just. I think that it's, it's. I think it really comes down to there's so many, it's, you know, there's so many moments that our lives can really get pressure tested by life circumstances, by the Lord. Right. That the scripture verse that many of us can't stand, but we know some part of the process count all joy to try in your faith.
Yay. It actually doesn't mean like cheering on. It actually means having calm with calm delight. That in that sense is that whatever I'm going through, God's going to get me through or he's going to be with me in that moment.
And so, you know, when we begin to actually name the things, the internal pressure that we're creating versus the external pressure and how that aligns. But what God is saying, I don't know how you can try and do this without being a person of prayer and really and devotion in God. I think anything else is just a great marketing mindset that is shallow at best.
[00:10:41] Speaker B: Yep.
For sure.
That takes courage to go there.
And I think, you know, if we're being honest, the opposite or the main enemy of courage is fear.
And talk about fear a lot in the book. And you talk about this principle called the flashlight principle, which is really about how you go and combat fear. Could you talk a little bit about what this means and how you use this principle to go after a fear that you're avoiding? Because for me, this was so relatable because we all have fears, things that keep us up at night.
And if we want to have courage to go after these things, we got to figure out this fear thing, right?
[00:11:23] Speaker C: Yeah. You know, I, in a flashlight principle, I talk about this story where as a kid, now I'm dating myself. But you know what, I've lived longer than most people thought I would, so that's okay.
Remember that, like back in the day you had flashlights, but there was like batteries that if you were serious, they have a little coil on the top, they put the cable. They were huge. Right.
So as a little kid we moved into this new house and, and, and I remember the attic. We moved to my grandmother's house and so there was this attic and I, man, I just, you know, it was like when you go bedtime, like after my, my mom or dad would say goodnight and up there by myself, I would hear the noises, you know, and it really got bad. When I watched this movie, I, I had the flu and I watched the movie with black and white. Bela Lugosi, Dracula. God have mercy, Lord, that was crazy. And so that was like, from that point on, like I heard all types of noises in that, in that attic. And I would call my father and it was like, you know, it was before he had ellipticals. I was his elliptical, you know, dad. So he had climbed 13 stairs. I knew how many of them were 13 stairs. And he would come in, he'd open the attic door, he'd prove to me there's nothing in there. And you know, and, and so eventually he got so tired, he gave me a flashlight. It's like, okay, you get a flashlight and you can, you can turn the flashlight on. And if you're a kid and you know what I'm talking about, you, you with the flashlight, you have the sheets on and you basically turn a flashlight on when you think you're hearing. No to me. Right?
[00:12:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:12:58] Speaker C: Or worst case scenario for me, I would, you know, I'd have that flashlight on. I'd be sleeping, I was trying to sleep. I hear a noise like a Turner flash, flash flashlight on.
The flashlight helped me dissipate the darkness. Fear grows in the dark. And it, and sometimes it's not the thing itself, it's the not looking at it that gives it size. And so I had all types of vain, ridiculous imaginations. And so the principle here in the flashlight principle is to shine the light directly on the fear and to name specifically what you're afraid of, what will happen. Like, okay, I'M under the sheet, you know, if I need to pull this flashlight because there's a boogeyman there, there's a vampire and there's a something in there. And you know, oft times the fears that we have, we never actually say them and so we don't have any concrete thinks. Well, I'm fear, I'm afraid of this. I'm afraid of. And failure has so many names, but most cases when you define that failure, you know, and it's, it's like you expose it and the enemy only has power when we're not willing to expose it. And it's a confrontational move, this flashlight principle. But, but, and it's not an avoidance move. And that's what's so powerful about this. You, you can, you can shine the light on something and it can't. And you don't, you don't have to hide from it. And so that's my, I feel like there's, this is my sense of the conversation I've had with leaders. It's like I ask the question, what are you afraid of? Oh, I got this going on. That's gone. Hey, what keeps you up at night?
I want to ask leaders, what keeps you up at night?
What if someone knew?
And some people I've discovered most recently having question conversation with leaders is that I feel like I'm an imposter.
Well, the reason why you feel like you're an imposter is because you actually haven't just taken this time to go, you know what, all this stuff going on even there's so much good stuff, even the challenging stuff, I'm not good enough to actually handle it without God.
I'm not going to fake it till I make it. There's no such thing. I'm going to lean into the everlasting arms of God and confess my dependency upon Him. That's what we're after. Just, just being honest with the reality, the moments we're in.
[00:15:18] Speaker B: Yeah. So this is not just a mind over matter thing, but this is actually inviting God's perspective into, into that fear that you're avoiding or that thing that's, that's keeping you up at night.
[00:15:31] Speaker C: Yeah, it's gotta be. Because the fact is, as leaders, as, as ministers of the gospel, you're not enough.
So, you know, we're, you know, it's like God is more than enough. We recognize his goodness, his mercy, his grace, all those things that, that carry us into those moments. But at the end of the day, it's that, that confession of Dependency upon God.
That brings, I think brings us life, brings us that truth, brings us strength, brings us perspective. And that's what I believe most. This is what that book shapes perspective for us in those given situations.
[00:16:06] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's great. Now let's go after like a core fear here and kind of take this to the next level.
Many, many people have their greatest fear is dealing with other people having those difficult conversations or those encounters.
You know, there's this thing I heard one time that most people would rather be in the coffin than speaking at a funeral because it's, you know, just that, that idea of having to be authentic and, and really be in the moment with another person. Especially when there's difficult things to, to discuss or to talk about. And in your book you talk about this 14 day conversation commitment. And I think that like this is a pretty important concept here because when we talk about fears, a lot of them revolve around dealing with other people.
[00:17:02] Speaker C: Yeah, I think one of the biggest things we actually, you know, we sometimes to your point, it's like that fear of dealing with other people.
But I find that some of the issues I really had was me coming to grips with dealing with me.
Like why am I concerned more about what someone else thinks about me? And I think especially when it comes to pastors and most leaders, one of their biggest challenges is not wanting to disappoint people.
But what would happen if our sole ambition was to please the Lord and our greatest fear wasn't to disappoint people, it was to, to not obey God.
You know, you know, it's, it's in, it's, it's one of those habits that actually can be shaped in Bible college and seminary and all types of different classes where I want to make sure I get the A, I want to make sure I get the approval I want to. Right. And, and we have these moments I think of, of for some of us. And I'll say this way, just doing some surveys on leaders.
Most leaders right now there's Carrie Newhoff does a great job. But there's other places to find this information.
Is most leaders, their biggest battle is loneliness.
Most leaders don't actually take the time to spend time with themselves and with the Lord. And so when you start talking about that fear, that paralyzing thing that we can face at times or just not face, we just avoid them.
I'm not good at that.
My question is simply, it would be boils down to a simple question and that is who said you can't?
Did you Say you can't. Did the Lord say you can't? And then with the confrontational piece of people, after you've actually spent time confronting yourself and saying, lord, I need your grace. Holy Spirit, lead me, guide me. Best personal trainer on the planet, or how do I speak this truth in love.
Most issues that we have with leaders and people is either a love deficit on our part or love deficit on their part. And as ministers of the gospel, able ministers of the gospel, we can actually cross that delta with the help of the Holy Spirit. And so while I remember back in the day, I love being the truth wielder with the sword of the Spirit. It was more like the sword of my spirit as the sword of the Holy Spirit. That's always life giving. Truth at times can hurt, but truth is for reconciliation and restoration.
I know it was a big answer, but I recognize that we have to face some things that, that the internal resistance that we have towards change.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: Yeah, so say you're this, this guy, this gal and you know, you have a difficult conversation ahead of you and you're actually afraid of the consequences.
What's the, what's the one line that's going to reorient, reorient your thoughts on that, that you want to give that leader?
[00:20:00] Speaker C: Well, I always just, I think one of the big things is that my heart's desire is that they would draw near to the Lord. They don't even have to draw near to me, but draw near to the Lord.
And that it is a record, it's a conversation of reconciliation.
And some people say, oh, that means, you know, soft pedal. No, the truth, sometimes the truth is annoying. It hurts, you know, but also there's where that, the other, I think the other shift to know if we've actually got to that place is I, I think is asking a person what they hear me say. Now help me understand what did you hear me say? Because sometimes our, again our filtration systems, we don't even hear, we've got. Sometimes you'll be so geared up about confrontation that you're all about, I want to make sure I say it all.
Well, you could say it all, but did they hear it all and did they hear what's actually necessary? And the last line I would say this is for leaders who are dealing with intergenerational moments is this. Don't assume you have permission to say the hard things if you're leading by your title alone. That doesn't give you permission. I can say it as a parent of 20 somethings and 30 somethings just because you got the title of dad doesn't mean you've got permission to say and so. Asking permission. Well, I'm the pastor, so. And so I'm a leader or something. I have the title. If you minister or live from your title, then you live from the tower. You don't live from relationship. And if you don't agree with me, that's fine. I'm old enough to be okay. Beyond your disagreement.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: No, I totally agree with you. Because when you. When you move from your position, that's a. That's a limited bank account that you have to work out of, and you can overspend that really quickly. But when you move out of permission and you. You get that ahead of time, that's like make someone making a deposit into that account that you can actually draw from. I think that's great. I think that's really good.
Great word.
[00:22:02] Speaker C: Yeah. Trust is a must. Trust is a must, isn't I? You know, you don't tell me I'm. I don't understand who I am. The question is, do we understand who we are? Do we understand who we are in the narrative? Sometimes we actually don't. I just encourage you to take the time to figure that one out.
[00:22:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
So in the book, we're talking about success, and part four opens up with defining success.
How do you help a leader separate success from what culture says success is? Or maybe what you were talking about before, success on paper and the success that God is actually measuring? Because I have a feeling those are two very different things.
[00:22:40] Speaker C: It is, I would say, you know, when you look at success, oftentimes, Right. We start talking about the culture is measured. Right. Size, speed, visibility.
Biblical success is measured by, according to Scripture, is measured by faithfulness and obedience.
And so the test isn't growing. It's, did I actually do what was I was asked to do?
Right. Laura, I didn't know all these miracles in your name. I did all these other things. Well, it did. Apart from me. I never knew you.
And so I think really redefining success for a leader early, it prevents a leader from, I think, either quitting too soon or chasing the wrong scoreboard for decades.
All the things that matter that seem to be mattering most, and it's really the victory only makes sense once you define what winning really is.
And I think that that's really important.
[00:23:39] Speaker B: Yeah. I think when success is pursued at all costs, that is exactly what the cost ends up being. It ends up being everything.
[00:23:49] Speaker C: Yeah. Jenny Mayo said this. If you're in A rat race which you're going to find out at the end of the day. And you're at the top of the ladder. You're actually the biggest rat.
Yeah. Anyway, she's great.
[00:24:05] Speaker B: All right, well, I definitely don't want to be the biggest rat on the ladder.
In the final chapter you're talking about finishing well.
So let's just like take a moment here and just, just put a nail on this. What's the difference between finishing and finishing well? What are you leading leaders towards in your book?
[00:24:25] Speaker C: Really what it is, is, is encouraging leaders at this point in time right now to look at the statistics for ministers. 1500 churches I think a month right now are closing. Not a year, a month are closing. And why is that happening?
Because leaders are folding. They're quitting. And finishing just doesn't mean quitting.
Finishing well means that you became.
It's who you actually became on the way to the finish line that matters as much as arriving.
It's not. I know people who have been heroes on the platform and zeros at home.
You can hit every goal that you set and still finish poorly.
If the price around your getting to the top, mountain top is you had a high body count and you're the only one holding the flag as opposed to this being.
I'm so glad it's the body of Christ, not the team of God.
And it's really. I think it has to be finishing well. The measure's gotta be those relationships also intact that your character was consistent and your calling, of course talking about your calling is honored, but not just the scoreboard.
And I've dealing with some of the lead in gatherings sometimes are like, so how's it going? Right. The measurement, how's it going?
You know, how's the church doing?
We beat around the bush. It's like, so what's the numbers look like? Or do you like your people still? Right, right. You know, it's. It's the beginning. You know, the beginning of this book starts talk. It talks, launches with drowning. But the, but the end of the book starts with finishing. Right? It's.
And so where do you find within yourself. And there's key questions after every chapter. Asking provoking questions that oftentimes leaders haven't been asked.
It's those things where it's like when it's all on what matters most. I just was sitting in a board meeting. Not, not the Elon board meeting, but I was sitting in a board meeting. Another leader, global leader, global influencer. I'm on his board and so we, we're sitting there for three days and, and we're just describing defining what finishing well looks like because on average, she's got over 265 invitations a year. And it's not sustainable all over the world. And so at the end of the day, are your kids calling you Uncle Daddy or are you actually the leader that these, you know, I've heard stories where, you know, the people get up and are testifying about the goodness of mom or dad and how great it was and blah, blah, blah. And the child gets up at the end and wraps it up and says, thank you so much for sharing because that's not the person I knew. Come on, somebody. Sweet Jesus.
[00:27:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:22] Speaker C: Now, this is a, this, this podcast isn't a shame game. I'm just saying right now where you are, you can make a difference.
[00:27:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's. This is more about making a personal intervention in your life to redefine what success is. Now to this next question. You. The answer might be, go, go and buy my book. The. That's, that's your thing. But the question is, what's the gut check question for a leader in the season that they are in right now to be able to say what does finishing well look like for me? What's, what's that gut check question?
[00:27:59] Speaker C: Man, I've been, you know, I've been asking this question for leaders. I've actually been doing like these, like one day things of leaders and got a mastermind. And it's really cool. Josh Finley. But the question I've been with people been as they're reading the book is this. There's a chapter talks about opus, right? And it's, it's fast forwarding and Doug, you know, from the life plans work, it's that question of if you die, if you, you know, write your obituary and then figure out what needs to happen, change your life in order for it to actually happen.
And I've seen some of the biggest leaders and the biggest power brokers crying around the table as they spend time trying to figure it out. And I remember when I did my lifeline, staring at the wall, when the question was, is it because you're afraid or you're too proud? And they said, I'll just come back when you're done. Well, it took me three hours to figure that one out. And that's real stuff because at the end of the day, what you can only do what you do. And so this is one of those books that are going to be provoking introspecting introspective. And I think that finishing strong, I'll capture this way, at the end of the day, a big race.
Even the person cleaning up the stadium crosses the finish line. The question is, are you going to break the tape? And every one of us has a race, something of significance to do, and only God's got our name attached to that thing. And so I say, wait, what, what matters most? What matters most?
And when I think about it, for me, I want my, not only the Lord saying, well done, good and faithful servant, but I want my kids and those who knew me well, really knew me to be able to say the same thing.
[00:29:47] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good.
Wow.
All right, this is our bonus question. Pastor.
Okay, so you, you did a 12 week field manual called Break the Tape.
It's to go along with the book. Why that format and what are you hoping for that to do functionally? What's, what's the purpose of doing that, that field annual?
[00:30:12] Speaker C: Well, one of the things, what it was really kind of birthed out of the, the, the kind of the, the coaching gap that most leaders, you know, most leaders don't have in our lives. I've talked to people like, I don't need coaching, I just need the Holy Spirit. Okay, great. That's awesome. And I know my ass is, I'm not going to argue, but I just know that you want to move further, faster. You need someone that's in your circle, they can ask you the hard questions. And most of us don't because we don't get asked the hard questions because those people who work for us or we can tell our spouses. I don't want to hear it.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: Right.
[00:30:44] Speaker C: So this is, this is what I wrote, that when trying to close the gap, to help leaders execute under pressure week after week. And so you know, when you, when you, when you read the book once, you're like, man, this is really good. This is provoking. There's questions after it. But the, the 12 week field manual, really saying, okay, you recognize now reading through this, that you need some, you've got some, some, some training wheels on the bike and we want to help you, we want to help you get your balance. You don't ever see a kid on the training wheel. You take one wheel off and are riding or leaning, and it's kind of, kind of kooky.
You know, the big thing about the field manual is this eliminates the lying, the quitting, the, the, you know, the, the, the chapters skip over. This is the line kind of chapter by chapter of Thought provoking ways. And I wrote it in a way where you could even do it as a. As a life.
Because I have leaders in my church who are saying, man, this is so good.
And people who are saying, I don't really have a circle that would ask me this question.
And so this helps you build it, this helps you grow it and execute it.
Yeah, Just coming along about courage, the
[00:32:01] Speaker B: courage to do that with a group sounds both terrifying and exciting at the same time.
[00:32:08] Speaker C: Yeah, it is. I had a little pilot program and it was really cool because the 30 some things don't know to ask the questions that I put in the book. But being in a table with a 50 something, it's like it's actually okay to ask the question.
It's funny the way they say, well, you're a lot older.
Okay, kid? Yeah, I guess so, right?
[00:32:29] Speaker B: I guess so,
[00:32:32] Speaker C: yeah.
[00:32:33] Speaker B: Thank you for joining us on the well and challenging us to not only think about what we want to accomplish in our lives, but who are we becoming and what that finish line looks like.
Personally, I want to encourage the listeners to go and get this book and to read it for themselves.
Additionally, there's somebody that, you know that needs to hear this kind of message.
They're trapped in that. What success looks like on paper in their lives. And this could really be the thing that. That really helps them and pulls them out of a nosedive of their lives. That can really turn them around.
The book is on Amazon. You can pick it up on there.
There's the ebook. There's the audible book. I was looking at that. A three hour audible book. I mean, we're talking three hours. You can get through the content of this book and really begin to process the concepts out of this book. I think that's really good. I love the writing style that you have in this book, Pastor Eric. It's very direct and. And it's not a hard read in the sense that there's a lot of margin and space in between the lines. That actually encourages you to pause and reflect before you move on to the next thing. So the book is just paced really, really well and found it to be a really enjoyable read. But to our listeners, thank you for joining us. And until the next time, I hope that you'll be leading with courage, live your life with faithfulness, and draw deeply from this well that we have here. Thanks, everyone.
Hey. After the podcast is over, we let Pastor Eric riff on why he wrote this book and who it's for and what he hopes that it's going to be doing. Go ahead and give this a listen.
[00:34:11] Speaker C: What's happening in the past five to seven years?
I don't know. We're older, so I don't think we, we realize it. But people that are really influential are blowing their lives up. And so leaders are so skeptical that the trust that's going on right now in leaders, it's down to 17%.
Like they did an internal, like, hey, do you trust your pastors and leaders? 17% of the church. So we're literally talking two intent. We're not even into two intent. And so when it comes to why I just wrote it like a press field type of flow, thought provoking, challenging is because people don't give a lot of time to the. For the hero in the story. Ida was not a hero in any story.
I wrote that in a way to be thought provoking. And the guys who are just 65 and above won't read it.
They're geared for heroes. This is for the people in the church who've been in ministry who got blown out. I did get some pushback from people because I did say something like a Bible college and something. But I'm like, dude, people who know me, they're like, oh, we know where you came from, but it's true. Why don't. People are done with scrubbing the truth. They just don't know how to not shame people. Right.
We're not doing that. So. And I think we have responsibilities as fathers and leaders. We are the fathers and leaders right now, speaking to the now and next generation. Whether we realize that or not. It's like 80 is too late.
An 80 year old. The best thing to do is speak to a 60 year old, I think.
[00:35:46] Speaker B: So that's good.
[00:35:47] Speaker C: Yeah. Anyway.
[00:35:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:49] Speaker C: And I love the concept of, you
[00:35:51] Speaker B: know, thinking about finishing strong. Even when you're midway or early on, you know, it's still something that you're putting together as a, as a plan now.
Yeah.
[00:36:03] Speaker C: Think how terrifying it is for some of these guys to be sitting there and going, okay, so this person who is a hero or a legend, this blew their life up.
Like, what was real about this?
I love Carrie Newhove. I love Craig, Rochelle and these cats.
And I'm going to actually read their books. Like do a deep dive and study is.
I'm writing like a monster right now. I finished a book called Curious and Courageous and it's geared towards marketplace leaders to how to share your faith. Because if you look at all the books that most of the books are written now, it's an evangelist writing it. What if you're not an evangelist? What if the gift you have is generosity or hospitality, right? You know, like as if that's not a great gift or service. Like, what are we doing? Like. So anyway, I wrote that George. It because I'm like, I'm just tired of people being frustrated because they think they got to wear a sign or let me figure out I can spin this conversation.
Live your life and someone will actually be curious. People stuff happens that are where faith is revealed and people are young leaders I'm running into. It's like they don't want to hear the hero story. They want to hear he went through something and you survived it. You still love God.
And we're really weary and there's a, there's a anger right now is like a low grade fever.
I'm just watching it, just disappointment, disappointment. So I'm hoping that this pushes people into a deeper dive in their stuff. Like getting to wade into the angle deep into your. Into your. In the your stuff and ask the Holy Spirit to deal with it.
Because it's the creep when things happen. It's not an overnight thing. It's over time. And most of them don't know that because they don't realize that, man, you've been serving God for 20 years. You're 20 years old. Like that's forever, right? And then you're like, wow, 28 years goes by so fast, buddy, you don't even know your name.
So anyway, that's, that's my, my hope as we continue to.
That's my hope to extend the reach amongst leaders. And knowing what I, the what I'm trying to do. Well, like I think that I can present thought provoking ideas and I, I'm old enough where I don't care that I'm not the hero story. I can say the, the mess, the myth of whatever and say for the sake of the gospel. Yeah, dude, I totally like knowing what I know now, what I do different. I'm not afraid of that question.
[00:38:43] Speaker A: Thank you for watching. We have so many more amazing episodes to share with you both upcoming and and on our website. So make sure you check them out wherever you get your podcasts. For even more amazing content, go to elamfellowship.org and check out the Hub. Not only are all the well, podcasts there, but there is so much more content for you. If this message was meaningful to you, please show your support by liking subscribing and sharing this channel and drop your thoughts down below. It really does make a big difference for us. So until next time, I'm Thomas, and we will see you around the well.
